but police may be tearing out their hair because the california highway patrol spokesman who originally released this picture says it is a mug shot, one of several that they took, not a polaroid taken at the hospital. >> maybe that's how he perceived it on ghb. maybe he thought, here's another fan who wanted a picture. maybe that's one of the things ghb does to you. >> reporter: everybody's a fan. >> who doesn't want a picture? >> reporter: mel gibson has reportedly said that he made sure his hair was groomed in the mug shot so he wouldn't end up like nolte. >> reporter: the moral of the mug shot or whatever it was, comb your hair. >> reporter: even if this kid didn't, at least he wasn't wearing a hawaiian shirt. >> nick nolte mug shot hair, hudson's hair. >> reporter: cnn, new york. >> that's it for me. i'm wolf blitzer in the "situation room," the news continues next on cnn. good evening, tonight from cherokee, iowa, a tiny town drawing the attention of two

republican presidential candidates today. this hour, congresswoman michele bachmann is due right here in cherokee. and a short time ago, texas governor rick perry campaigned right here at the copper cup cafe. here today i got a first-hand taste of the split among evangelical voters. that was a subplot in this year's iowa campaign and a major obstacle to perry's comeback hopes. another obstacle is the other texan in the race, listen here, governor perry knows it. >> dr. paul is wrong on this issue. you can't make nice with -- >> in a moment, my exclusive one-on-one with governor perry. but first, other major news today, including this. sickening, sickening, no other way to describe it. penn state football coach mike mcqueary entered court today and said he believes he saw coach jerry sandusky molesting a boy in the showers.

susan candiotti was in the courtroom and some of the testimony in her report here is quite graphic. >> reporter: it was his moment, mike mcqueary walked into court, took a deep breath and became the prosecution's star witness. he methodically described what he called a horrifying alleged 2002 sexual assault between jerry sandusky and a young boy in a penn state locker room. >> when i opened that first door, i heard rhythmic slapping sounds, two or three slaps skin on skin. >> reporter: he moved closer and looked in the shower. >> the boy was facing the wall, hands for shoulder height. jerry was close to him with his hands wrapped around his waist. i believe jerry was sexually molesting him. >> reporter: he said he was about 5 to 6 feet away. >> there was no protester yelling, so i can't be sure it was intercourse, but that's what i believe was occurring. they looked directly in my eyes. >> reporter: neither said a word. >> reporter: he says he left, called his father, and met with

head coach joe paterno the next day. >> i described it as extremely sexual. >> reporter: but avoided the words because he said he didn't want to offend the legendary coach. nine days later, mcqueary says he was called to meet with the penn state vice president gary schultz. >> there's no question in my mind i conveyed to them that it was severe sexual acts going on and it was wrong and over the line. >> reporter: mcqueary testified he didn't call police because he thought by telling schultz who is in charge of campus police he was. >> in my mind, it was like speaking to a d.a. >> reporter: but his information never went any further, not to police or child and youth services. susan candiotti, cnn, harrisburg, pennsylvania. >> late this afternoon, the judge in that case ruled that the two ex-penn state officials mentioned there in susan's piece will face trial on perjury and

failing to report suspected child sex abuse. breaking big developments from the beginning. sarah, let's just start with mike mcqueary in that graphic. horrible, horrible testimony. was he a credible witness? >> reporter: very interesting, john. he was an interesting witness because he came across as having -- very assured of himself, even when it didn't bode so well for him. he was very, very confident in saying that he definitely thought it was a crime. very confident in saying that, yes, he left that locker room with that boy standing naked alone in a shower with jerry sandusky and he didn't hesitate really for any of the answers. there were times on the stand where he sat there and stared at the defendant and they looked away, which is usually the opposite in court. usually the defendants stare at the witnesses who can't make eye contact. it was a very interesting dynamic in the courtroom.

i do think he came across as incredibly believable because he was so seemingly honest about things that don't necessarily make him look so great. but it was very interesting to see him up on the stand so confident, leaning forward, very self-assured, and you have to kind of wonder if it's in his blood almost because his father got up on the stand and it was the same exact way, the same confidence. you make big decisions for a living and this is part of what he did. it was part of who he is to make that decision to help his son make a decision to go to his coach to his boss, joe paterno instead of going to police. >> sara, thanks so much for that reporting. moving on to politics now. medicare, medicaid, what's the difference? well, democrats are pouncing on the former massachusetts governor mitt romney for this comment. >> you wonder what medicaid is, those who aren't into the

government stuff. i didn't know the differences before i got into government, and then i got into it and understood that medicaid is the health care program for the poor by and large. >> let's get some perspective. chief political analyst gloria borger is with us now. democrats are saying, a ha major slip up for mitt romney. is it? >> i don't think so in the republican primary as much as it is the democrats have found something that they can use against mitt romney, which is that he is somebody who has made an awful lot of money and that he is out of touch with average americans and with poor people and maybe even with seniors, if he didn't know the difference between medicare and medicaid. i should tell you that the romney campaign went out of the way to say what he was talking about was when he was running for the senate and that, of course, he does understand the differences between the two programs. >> that he made that remark in that video we were just showing

was an event in iowa. then he left iowa, which is state number one in the voting to skip ahead to state number three, south carolina, to pick up a big endorsement. tell us who it is. >> well, nikki haley, probably most particularly rick perry would've loved to get this endorsement. and what's interesting is -- and john, i don't know if you think that endorsements matter as much as they used to. i tend to think they don't. but she has an organization, she's now put herself on the line to deliver this state for mitt romney and also it's important because she's a key tea party person. and maybe this means that mitt romney has a real upside with the tea party. we're going to have to wait and see. but as for an endorsement, you know, it doesn't matter what it did 20 years ago, but still important. >> we'll see how that one works out. gloria borger, thanks for your time tonight. fascinating day in politics beyond iowa. and it's a scary headline. consider this international

story. russian customs seized radioactive material in the luggage of an iranian passenger bound for tehran. but there seems to be a lot more questions than answers so far. let's separate the fact from the fiction. here to help us out, international security expert jim walsh of the massachusetts institute of technology. so break this down for people watching this. we know this material, not used in nuclear weapons, why should we be concerned? >> well, there are a lot of unanswered questions. folks should keep in mind that there are lots and lots of nuclear materials. materials that are radioactive. some are used in medicine or industrial purposes. only a tiny number of those have any real application toward a nuclear weapons program. this one, sodium 22 is not one of those. there are two sets of questions. one is, why was this guy carrying a radioactive substance, trying to get on a plane with it going to tehran? that's unclear, he's a dental student and it had something to do with that.

the other question more compelling is what were the russians thinking? right. this happened a while ago. they only announced it today. why did they let the guy go? why don't they tell us the name of the passenger so we can begin to piece this together? they refused to do that. and why after letting him go do they now announce, you know, much later they're going to open an investigation? so this raises as many questions about customs officials in russia as it does about the iranian fellow on the plane. >> when you raise all those questions, why, why, why did they wait so long? what is your suspicion? >> well, i wish i had a good answer for you. you know, part of it may be russian bureaucracy. and this is pure speculation on my part. russia has hundreds of these sorts of incidents every year. with people trying to take radioactive material across their borders. and we had a whole flood of these right after the fall of the soviet union in eastern europe. and they were just treating this like anything else and, then,

you know, sort of gets gummed up in the works. then, for some reason, and this is the question. what is it that -- visited a month or two months or however long it's been. that's the part i don't quite get. hopefully in the coming days details will leak out and we'll get a better idea. >> put together the remaining pieces of the radioactive mystery. appreciate your help tonight, thanks so much. coming up here at 40 past the hour, more riveting testimony of the key witnesses in the case of jerry sandusky. two legal witnesses weighing in on the evidence. plus, we're counting down our top debate moments of the year throughout tonight's show. here, number five. >> there are people that stood up and said, well, he doesn't have the right throwing mechanisms or, you know, he's not playing the game right. and, you know, he won two national championships and that looked pretty good. we were the national champions

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looking at live pictures of

the christmas lights. this is cherokee, iowa, small town just a few thousand people. one of the many communities where you find small-town conservative voters. right before the break, youered that the texas governor rick perry making the analogy that tim tebow, the denver bron quarterback in last night's debate maybe the beginning of the game hasn't gone so well. he suspects, he says, through retail politicking in small towns like this to stage a comeback in iowa. i had a conversation with rick perry a short time ago and i began with that tebow comparison from last night's debate. >> thank you for your time. i want to start with your tim tebow analogy last night. if you take that literally, that would mean essentially that you stunk the joint up for three quarters, but you're going to close and win it in the end. is that how you see it? >> there may be some after my first three debates that somebody said we stunk it up pretty bad. but we've got our feet back under us now. we've had three really, you know, good debates and last night, i think, we had the

opportunity to really get our message home and hammered home about being an outsider, about getting this country back working. yeah, that's my goal is to -- tim tebow, i've got great respect for him, both a man of faith and quite a talent, and a lot of people said he couldn't make it, couldn't do it, and he's showing them wrong. >> you make the reference to man of faith. he's somebody, an evangelical himself. an important constituency in this state, especially small towns like cherokee here. if you look at the polling right now, you're struggling a bit. you're fourth among evangelical voters in our poll. gingrich, paul, romney, then rick perry, then you have santorum and bachmann just below you. i was talking to some women earlier here, and they're all saying we're torn between santorum, bachmann, and perry. and we're trying to make up our mind. why of those three should they pick you? >> well, obviously i think you have three people that are

strong christians, three people that have strong leaning. i'm the one that has the outside impact, though. i'm not a part of washington, d.c. and i'm also 11 years of executive governing experience that has had a record of job creation that's unparalleled in this country. so if you're looking for a person who has values, a person who understands job creation, person that's all about freedom, then i'll be the one they settle on. >> you just started your speech here, and the first candidate you drew a contrast was not speaker gingrich, not governor romney, but it was dr. paul. >> well, the issue was last night i was taken aback by t the -- just the power of his statement from the standpoint of allowing a madman to come into possession of a nuclear bomb and

somehow or another that we should not care about that. we should not be engaged with israel, our long time friend and the longest democracy in the middle east. absolutely we should be. israel is our -- there should be no space between the united states and israel. and i just was really taken aback by dr. paul's almost nonchalant statement about, you know, let them go, you know, there's not any evidence they're getting a bomb. and that's certainly not my information. and i'm relying on some pretty wise and plugged in people. i talked to john bolton on a regular basis and the ambassador is greatly concerned about iran. >> you are known as a good closer if you talk to your friends in texas about campaigns. no more debates. 18 days until iowa votes, now you get to do it the old-fashioned way. retail politics, where does governor perry draw the line in iowa? what's your test?

top three, top four to keep going? >> i don't have -- i don't have a line. my goal is to win iowa. the reason i'm spending the time in 44 cities right before christmas and i'll be back on the 27th and stay here until january the 3rd asking people for their votes and retail politicking. i mean that's -- i think that is going to be a formula that's going to be very successful. >> you don't have a line, though? >> no, i'm going to be in new hampshire, south carolina, and in florida. so we're going to -- >> you mentioned south carolina. governor haley endorsed mitt romney today. >> yeah. >> a fellow conservative southern governor. does that sting a bit? >> not really. everyone gets to make a decision on who they're -- that's one vote, i'll be real honest with you. i've got medal of honor recipient general jim livingston who endorsed me on the deck last week and no offense, but i like those guys that have that type of long time record endorsement

and i greatly respect governor haley, but if i have to pick between the two, love having those veterans stand up and say this is the guy, this is the man for the job. >> you were just talking about your record in texas and the economy in the south, there's a big debate about this payroll tax holiday extension. >> right. >> and there are some people who have been for it in the past who say you know what? we haven't seen evidence it's doing enough to stimulate the economy and that comes out of the social security fund. if you were president today, would you extend that? >> no. >> would you let taxes go up? >> listen, the permanent -- i should say temporary tax reductions aren't doing anything. what we need to be doing -- this president if he's serious about getting the country back on track, he'd be lowering the tax burden, pulling back these regulations, he would be standing up and saying, you know what? we're going to build the xl pipeline, we're going to create these jobs. if i'm a blue collar union guy, i'm not happy with this president. because he's killing jobs that

they could be having access to. so this president is serious about getting the country back on track and about creating the environment who are job creators. it's not about giving these -- i would suggest to you rather gimmicky temporary tax cuts, give real confidence by cutting these regulations. the regulations are what are killing the job creation in this country. >> you had an ad here in iowa. i'm going to read you from the script. you don't need to be in the pew every sunday to know there's something wrong in our country when gays can serve in the military but our kids can't pray in school. that one on the internet and gay rights groups raise questions about your tolerance. how would you answer that? >> well, i think the president made a huge mistake when he -- during a time of war, we have troops in two different

theaters, using them as a political tool to address an issue that is important to his political base. don't ask, don't tell was working, should've left it in place, but he, again, responded to his political base just like he's responded to his political base on this xl pipeline issue with a radical environmental -- i don't think that's good public policy, i don't think it's good for the military and i think it's a bad public policy. >> would you switch it back? >> i would switch it back. i would switch it back to don't ask, don't tell. >> thanks for your time. >> you're welcome. >> merry christmas. >> merry christmas. up next, we've got our first look at private bradley manning, the soldier accused of passing classified documents to wikileaks. he was in court and we'll have the details. plus, throughout the program, we're counting down our top debate moments of the year. here's number four. >> your rival is standing right there.

if it was obomney care on sunday, why is it not with the governor standing there? >> he looked to massachusetts for designing his program. he's the one who said it's a blueprint and he merged the two programs and so using the term obomney care was a reflection of the president's comments that he designed it on the massachusetts health care plan. snakeskin boots sequin costume under things stiletto heels skinny jeans houndstooth snuggie pork pie hat oshkosh socks 5% cash back. right now get 5% cash back at department stores. nyquil tylenol: we are?ylenol. you know we're kinda like twins. nyquil (stuffy): yeah, we both relieve coughs, sneezing, aches, fevers. tylenol: and i relieve nasal congestion. nyquil (stuffy): overachiever. anncr vo: tylenol cold multi-symptom nighttime relieves nasal congestion... nyquil cold & flu doesn't. i joined the navy when i was nineteen. i was a commissioned officer at twenty-three. i was an avionics... tactical telecommunications... squad leader. i think the hardest transition as you get further into the military is... you know it's going to end one day.

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here's the latest news you need to know. right now looks like the federal government will not shut down at midnight tonight after all. the house passed $1 trillion spending bill today to keep the government running and the senate is expected to pass it, as well, possibly tomorrow. deadly violence in egypt. at least four people killed today in central cairo during clashes between activists and security forces. opposition leaders in syria say at least 17 people were killed across that country today adding to the growing death toll in the month long protest against the government of assad. a short hearing for bradley manning. manning's attorneys asked the presiding officer in the military case to recuse himself. that was denied. sam hurd can be released from federal custody if he posts $100,000 in cash bail. he was arrested this week and charged with conspireing to distribute cocaine. today the bear cut hurd from the team. tonight's number, nothing to do with politics, it's 762.

any guesses? if you're a baseball fan, you know 762 is the number of career home runs hit by home run leader barry bonds. for barry bonds, it was a day of reckoning today. the infamous major leaguer was sentenced for giving evasive testimony to a federal grand jury investigating doping in sports. he learned his sentence in a courtroom less than two miles in a ballpark where he broke hank aarons' home run record four years ago. dan joins us now. and dan, you could make the case here, barry bonds got off pretty lightly. tell us the sentence. >> reporter: yeah, it's pretty light. you know, he's got to do a 30-day home detention. and if you're barry bonds, that's not too bad. he lives in a ten-bedroom mansion in beverly hills on top of that. he's got a two-year probation he's got to fulfill and pay a $4,000 fine. just a speeding ticket. but look, he doesn't have to actually do this for quite a

while because the judge stayed her sentence because barry bonds is appealing his conviction. so when ultimately he fulfills his sentence, that's basically a no, and the wheels of justice turn pretty slow, so he could be looking at a year or so before this case is finally over. john? >> he say anything at all about this, dan? >> reporter: no, he didn't. and as a matter of fact, in court, what he -- when the judge announced her decision, he basically had, you know, sort of this sort of expressionless. by the way, he looks a lot thinner than he did back in his playing days, walked out of court surrounded by his attorneys, hopped in his suv, and took off. they'll probably be back at the appeals court which is a block or two away from here in the next month or so as that appeals process gets underway, john. >> dan simon, thanks so much. up next, we'll analyze the

graphic testimony given today against jerry sandusky, the former penn state football coach, of course, accused of sexually molesting young boys. but first, we're counting down our favorite debate moments of 2011, and here's number three. >> no doubt about that. >> you can't name the third one? >> the third agency of government i would do away with education, the commerce -- >> commerce. >> commerce, and let's see -- i can't -- i can't the third one i can't. sorry. oops. s e. i lyou alo. [ male aou b t sp elerocs selling fishcakes from the back of his truck, and in 1942, of course, they were sent away. after the war, as a japanese coming back from camp, he started a little store on main street in seattle. of course they needed some money,

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major developments today in the child sex abuse case against jerry sandusky. assistant coach mike mcqueary, perhaps the only eyewitness to an alleged incident gave graphic testimony during a preliminary hearing. he told the court he saw sandusky molesting a 10 or 11-year-old boy in a penn state locker room in 2002 saying, "the boy was up against the wall, facing the wall, hands were shoulder height, jerry was close to him with his hands wrapped around his waist. i believe jerry was sexually molesting him." what does this mean for the case against jerry sandusky? joining us now is stacey honowitz, also with us defense attorney ann bremner. i want to bring up first a point for you. and how powerful could this be for anybody defending sandusky in this case.

mcqueary described what he saw between sandusky and the boy. he said it was of a sexual nature, but couldn't say 100% certainty. couldn't say with 100% certainty it was intercourse. they are as close as you can be, is what he said. compare that to this. victim two who is estimated to be 10 years old. with his hands up against the wall being subjected to anal intercourse by a naked sandusky. different testimony today than to the grand jury, how could a defense lawyer perhaps exploit that? >> well, any time an inconsistency, as we know. you can try to undermine a witness' credibility, especially in a case like this where there'll be multiple statements. either you saw it or you didn't. something that graphic and shocking which he said was shocking to him and upsetting, you would think he would say the same thing each and every time. so that's the way they're going to use it, but this is a tough case beyond tough case right now.

>> stacey, in your view is it enough of an inconsistency to be a problem for the prosecution? >> listen, i've tried these cases for a long time and i would to say i don't think it's enough. quite frankly, without getting extremely graphic on the show, there was a reason he said what he said the second time. he said he believed they were having intercourse and was based on the positioning of the bodies, then it was asked later on followed if he actually saw the act of penetration where he said, no, i couldn't see that. and that's why he changed the story to, you know, i don't know if it was exactly intercourse because i wasn't seeing any penetration. the fact is, it's graphic, john, but that's the kind of testimony as a way of him trying to really rectify why those two positions are different. >> one of the big questions about mike mcqueary that will likely come up in the sandusky trial also could come up in the case against the two ex-penn state officials who are

essentially accused of not doing enough to act on this quickly is what exactly mike mcqueary did after that incident. we were just discussing it. he says he did not directly call the police, but he did -- this is an e-mail obtained by mike mcqueary. he sent this to former classmates. why didn't he do more to try to bring sandusky to justice beforehand? he said this in an e-mail, he did have discussions with police and the official at the university in charge of police. i did stop it, not physically, but made sure it was stopped when i left the locker room. when asked today if he called police, he said no. he went to his father, saw a family friend, and told coach paterno the next day. is that, again, and to you, is that an inconsistency? or is it not significant? because mike mcqueary's position is while he talked to the university official in charge of police, he took that as the same thing. >> you know, again, it's the kind of thing as a defense lawyer you want to grab on to and use because the fact is, you

have to ask him at the end of the day, when nothing happened with sandusky, did you wonder? because you obviously thought you went to the police, you obviously said you went to someone that oversaw the police. the inconsistency is if you your statement was before you went to someone who had a connection with the police and thereby you felt you were informing the police indirectly, why would your lawyer say you didn't at all? these are things the defense attorney can use as inconsistencies and it can be important in sex assault cases, these are generally not witness crimes. there are multiple accounts of the victims themselves. >> we're in the preliminary phases of this case here. i want you both to listen to one of jerry sandusky's lawyers who was on "in session" today. he said you might read what's in the grand jury report, but there's been something missing from this case, he hasn't been cross-examined. let's listen. >> i know for a fact that the

prosecution did not allow him to be cross-examined. the prosecution did not allow him to be cross-examined on the e-mails. so to the extent that your producer or anybody else thought he was credible, he hasn't been subject to full and fair cross-examination yet. >> ann, what's the most interesting thing you are learning about how this will play out in court from the preliminary back and forth? >> i guess the most interesting thing right now is i think everyone thought that mcqueary would have the exact same testimony he had in front of the grand jury where the grand jury found it to be credible. and that was talking about, you know, rape and talking about very graphic and specific things. but what we're hearing now, at least, from what's been reported on his testimony is that he said he described things that were quite different and arguably different and in terms of what the acts were and it seems like he didn't want to upset people or say too much in terms of what he saw. so it's a different type of feel

from his testimony today. and we've seen the headlines, which are, you know, it's really different testimony. and cross-examination would bring in more different testimony presumably, but it's not as hard and fast and clear cut as we first thought it to be in terms of what he "reported to others." >> stacey, same question to you, what have you learned so far that raises questions in your mind about where this case is going? >> well, i mean, i don't think there's so much of a difference between the grand jury testimony and the testimony we heard today. certainly the defense attorney is 100% correct. he has not been cross-examined as to what he saw. because in the preliminary hearing, it's really not a matter of his credibility, it's a case to get him over to trial. if there are major inconsistencies, if he told somebody a completely different story, then certainly that's going to make a difference at trial. you have to remember something, john. quite frankly, someone is going to have to say what would be the benefit of him or his motivation to come forward with this kind of graphic, disgusting

testimony? what did he have to gain by going and reporting what he saw? and i think that's going to be the biggest hinge for the prosecution. that's what they're going to ask a jury at trial. why would this gentleman come forward, risk all he had, come forward with the university he's working with and make up these allegations? so we'll have to wait and see what happens during the cross-examination, but at this juncture, i don't think the testimony is so inconsistent. >> stacey honowitz, ann bremner, i appreciate your insight on this case. moving forward. up next, we shift back to politics and tonight's truth. have you had enough of debates? we'll answer that question, and we hope not because we're also as we finish the program tonight, counting down our top debate moments of the year. here's number two. >> you were for individual mandates, my friend. >> you know what? you raised that before, rick. >> it was true then, it's true now. >> rick, i'll tell you what,

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erin burnett "out front" at the top of the hour. we're counting down our top debate moments of the year, and i want to share with you number one. >> okay. >> the party that says it's the party of the family is going to adopt an immigration policy which destroys families that have been here a quarter century, and i'm prepared to

take the heat for saying let's be humane in enforcing the law. without giving them citizenship, but finding a way to create legality so they are not separated from their families. >> governor -- >> what do you make of that? a brave moment for speaker gingrich given the anti-immigration sentiment right now, especially tea party voters. >> it sure was brave. and as he has done in all those debates, john, articulately and graciously delivered, but perhaps that's what we saw yesterday. the anti-gingrich on the national review website in giant red letters. it's moments like that have contributed to the backlash that's been hurting him in the polls. >> and so give us a sense of what's coming up next. >> all right. well, we're going to talk about this payroll tax. talking about left and right coming together. right now, i can tell you, john, and this is literally happening

as i speak, senate republicans are in a huddle and they're meeting and potentially could come out with news with real movement toward a deal on a payroll tax cut extension. democrats right now are telling us this could be extended for 11 months, which obviously is much better than there have been talks of last night where thought it could only be a two-month extension. so hopefully they'll break some news for us on the deal and what it would be on this payroll tax cut extension. plus, we'll talk about what happened on that flight from moscow to tehran. those 18 steel cases that seem to have some sort of radioactive material in them. how significant is this story? we're going to talk about that, also, coming up top of the hour, happy friday, john. >> happy friday it is, erin. we'll see you in a few minutes. and erin was just mentioning, the payroll tax cut extension negotiations. let's go to kate bolduan on

capitol hill. >> reporter: yeah, we're learning this now, it's happening as we speak from two sources that the leadership that has been negotiating this, they have reached an impasse on this larger deal to try to -- they've been negotiating for -- intensely, especially over the past few days to negotiate a deal to extend the payroll tax cut and other items for a year was the target. well, the leaders have reached an impasse we're told according to sources, and so they're moving toward this fallback plan that we started reporting on last night that has to do with their going to move to a two-month extension, the unemployment assistance we've been talking about, as well as a two-month extension having to do with the so-called doc fix, john. important also to note that the keystone provision, the controversial provision that the republicans have been insisting on, the keystone provision will be part of this short-term two-month extension, john.

>> kate bolduan, live for us on capitol hill, kate. thank you. the presidential debate season is over, and for some veteran republicans, not a moment too soon. >> i think they've had too many debates because i think it's now who makes a mistake rather than who articulates his or her vision for the future of the country. >> it's not often that john mccain and carl rove see eye to eye, but the man george w. bush called the architect, 13 debates in his words is too much of a good thing. debates have nearly crippled campaigns, he writes in a "wall street journal" essay. this year's record-breaking mass of debates has made the contest the most unpredictable, shifting, and downright inexplicable primary race i've ever witnessed. carl, what's wrong with unpredictable and rapidly shifting? tonight's truth is what you think matters more than what the

political class thinks. and there are more than 60 million reasons to think the debates were helpful. 60 million. that's a ballpark figure for the total viewership of the 13 nationally televised debates these past eight months. you now know a lot more not only what they stand for but also about how they react under pressure, it's true these debates have had outsized influence on the republican debate. thank tim pawlenty's campaign, and helped send rick perry from front-runner to endangered status. on the other hand, the three most consistent debaters, gingrich, romney, and paul are the three atop the polls. too much influence? i think not. that said, i'm glad there's a break now. no more debates before iowa votes in just 18 days. that's a good thing. because if there is a downside to so many debates, it has been there's been less emphasis on old-fashioned retail politics. now we'll see more coffee shop

visits and bus tours over the next 2 1/2 weeks, more chances for the voters to kick the tires up close. and when the debate season resumes in january after iowa votes, here's the truth you can bank on, there will be fewer candidates in the race, and therefore fewer candidates on the debate stage. let's discuss the debates and more with two former members of congress are here. susan who supports romney, and the senior adviser to newt gingrich. mr. livingston, i want to begin with you. you're here in iowa, been here all week. and what they like to call newtmentum has stalled somewhat. part of that has been the attacks, no question about it. the attacks in media interviews, the attack ads on television. and newt was responding to one of them last night. i want you to listen. mitt romney interviewed the "new york times" said gingrich is sometimes zany. >> i sometimes get accused of using language that's too strong.

so i've been standing here editing. i'm very concerned about not appearing to be zany. >> funny moment, congressman livingston, but can your friend withstand these attacks without firing back a little bit more forcefully himself? >> sure he can, john. and by the way, i totally agree with you about the debates. i think carl rove is wrong. i think the debates have been great. and one reason is that newt gingrich has been able to get his message out. he had a horrible start last spring when i started to support him. worst start perhaps in the history of american politics. but he looked at me in early august, late july, looked at me right in the eye and said, bob, watch the debates. i'm going to do well, and by december, i'll be on top. he is. and when he got on top, everybody and their mother started attacking him for one

reason or another. the fact is newt gingrich has a record to rely on. when he was speaker of the house, he actually performed in a conservative fashion. he balanced the budget, cut programs, eliminated programs, brought in welfare reform, and when it was all over, when he left 13 years ago, we had a $5 trillion debt. today we have a $15 trillion debt. i'd like to see a little bit more of newt gingrich, and i hope we will for the next four years. >> congresswoman, your friend is making the case for newt gingrich. you support mitt romney. i thought it was striking last night. a lot of people thought the overall debate would be more comb combative. and it wasn't. governor romney clearly decided to let a few opportunities to take thumps at speaker gingrich pass. what do you think was behind that strategy? >> well, i think, number one, he didn't have to take the shots because so many of the other candidates, some of whom, you know, served with newt as i did and find him zany.

have decided, you know, they needed to stand up and talk about what it was like during the revolution when a conservative group of members of congress who knew brought into power decided he could no longer handle the leadership. so i think that governor romney decided it was best particularly at this last debate to continue to find himself as the businessman who created jobs, as the governor who lowered unemployment, as the man who made some really substantial changes in the bluest state that we have to be able to put his focus on president obama. and i think at the end of the day, what you really saw was somebody who looked presidential and could go toe-to-toe with president obama next year in these debates. >> i want you both to listen and then get a quick response. congressman ron paul and michele bachmann had a little back and forth over iran last night. let's listen. >> the greatest danger is that we will have a president that will overreact, and we will soon bomb iran -- >> with all due respect to ron paul, i think i have never heard a more dangerous answer for american security than the one that we just heard from ron paul.

>> we're a little short on time because of the breaking news. if i could get a quick observation from each of you. ron paul used to be way out there. more and more people, even a possibility of winning iowa. why? >> well, he's got a great economic policy. i can subscribe to a lot of what he says about domestic politics and about the need to cut spending and that sort of thing, but his foreign policy is still way out there. he's just, frankly, a fella who has never really supported defense appropriations, he doesn't want a defense department, doesn't want us to engage abroad and i think he's flat out wrong. >> well, i unfortunately need to cut this there. congresswoman, i owe you a little time. up next, a look ahead to where the road will take us next and the highlights of our week here in iowa. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 let's talk about fees. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 there are atm fees.

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before we go tonight, a few take aways from our week crisscrossing iowa. everywhere we went in this state, local republicans told us they expect big turnout for this year's caucuses. well, in ames, for example, we met a republican, now she's neutral because she's helping to organize her local caucus site. but listen to this. >> do you think that on campus next november republicans will give obama a run for his money? >> based off the running start that obviously that the republican students have had and

how much organization and getting people out there, it's not just last-minute. oh, we better throw something together, it's been going on for some time. >> we logged about 800 miles from davenport to cedar rapids to ames to sioux city, we're in cherokee, iowa, tonight. i met a lot of great voters along the way. they're also happy, most iowans are happy the debates are over because they want more candidates in places like this coffee shop. rick perry was here today, michele bachmann's up the street right now. quick memo to newt gingrich, if you want to protect the lead, you've got to shake some hands. he spoke for five minutes and quickly left the room. a lot of people who gave him money who were there to hear him wish he came by to greet them personally. you've got to do that, mr. speaker, if you want to hang on here in iowa. other supporters of mitt romney disappointed in iowa, we'll see if governor romney invests in the final days. and one last footnote, ron paul is for real. some think he could win the state of iowa. everywhere you